Post by Admin on Jun 12, 2018 16:52:40 GMT -5
One of the issues we can discuss is when exactly did the New Covenant start? Was it at Christ's death? Or at Pentecost?
Well, one thing I would point out is that we must distinguish between the living and the dead. What I mean by this is that we have extensive teaching in the New Testament that foretells God bringing about salvation for mankind, and we must clarify when those promises were fulfilled. So for those who were dead, I think we are correct to apply eternal remission of sins to those who had died, the Old Testament Saints. We can even apply remission to those still alive, such as the disciples. However, we do not see the disciples immersed into God in eternal union until Pentecost, and it is being placed in God (which is synonymous with being placed in Christ and being eternally indwelt by God) by which we receive the eternal life Christ came to give. We can say this of those who had already died, they did receive eternal life when they were forgiven through the Cross and reconciled to God, but, for the living, Scripture makes it clear this did not take place until Pentecost.
The first point is that in order for the Spirit to be sent...Christ had to return to die, arise again, and return to Heaven:
John 16:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
John 7:38-39 King James Version (KJV)
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
We see when they are Baptized with the Holy Ghost...
Acts 1:4-5 King James Version (KJV)
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
We see Peter define the Baptism with the Holy Ghost as the moment of salvation here:
Acts 11:13-18 King James Version (KJV)
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
So in regards to those living (and the thief on the cross died prior to Christ rising again) becoming a member of the Church (the Body of Christ) did not begin until Pentecost.
Christ makes it clear that eternal indwelling is yet a future event for the disciples here...
John 14:15-23 King James Version (KJV)
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
So in regards to the New Covenant we cannot have it established until men are actually receiving that which was promised in the New Covenant. And one primary promise was the indwelling of the Holy Ghost, which is distinguished by Christ from the ministry the Spirit performed in Old Testament Eras/Ages (v.17).
God bless.
Well, one thing I would point out is that we must distinguish between the living and the dead. What I mean by this is that we have extensive teaching in the New Testament that foretells God bringing about salvation for mankind, and we must clarify when those promises were fulfilled. So for those who were dead, I think we are correct to apply eternal remission of sins to those who had died, the Old Testament Saints. We can even apply remission to those still alive, such as the disciples. However, we do not see the disciples immersed into God in eternal union until Pentecost, and it is being placed in God (which is synonymous with being placed in Christ and being eternally indwelt by God) by which we receive the eternal life Christ came to give. We can say this of those who had already died, they did receive eternal life when they were forgiven through the Cross and reconciled to God, but, for the living, Scripture makes it clear this did not take place until Pentecost.
The first point is that in order for the Spirit to be sent...Christ had to return to die, arise again, and return to Heaven:
John 16:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
John 7:38-39 King James Version (KJV)
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
We see when they are Baptized with the Holy Ghost...
Acts 1:4-5 King James Version (KJV)
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
We see Peter define the Baptism with the Holy Ghost as the moment of salvation here:
Acts 11:13-18 King James Version (KJV)
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
So in regards to those living (and the thief on the cross died prior to Christ rising again) becoming a member of the Church (the Body of Christ) did not begin until Pentecost.
Christ makes it clear that eternal indwelling is yet a future event for the disciples here...
John 14:15-23 King James Version (KJV)
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
So in regards to the New Covenant we cannot have it established until men are actually receiving that which was promised in the New Covenant. And one primary promise was the indwelling of the Holy Ghost, which is distinguished by Christ from the ministry the Spirit performed in Old Testament Eras/Ages (v.17).
God bless.